The TeleWellness Hub Podcast

Ep 74 Ketamine Therapy and Overcoming Postpartum Depression: Bryn Ghio's Story of Academic and Emotional Renewal

• Martamaria Hamilton

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Ever wondered if there's a light at the end of the tunnel for those grappling with severe mental health challenges? In this episode, we promise you'll gain a new perspective on the transformative power of ketamine-assisted therapy. Join us as Bryn Ghio, a mom of two and a recent master's graduate in interior design, takes us through her emotional and academic struggles. She shares how her dedicated therapist Crystal from Life Works Professional Counseling and the groundbreaking use of ketamine therapy have given her the strength to overcome postpartum depression and academic hurdles. Bryn's journey is a testament to the life-changing potential of innovative mental health treatments and the importance of a supportive therapeutic relationship.

But Bryn's story is just the beginning. We also explore the experience of another individual who has battled depression, anxiety, and trichotillomania since childhood. Despite trying various traditional therapies and SSRIs, it was ketamine therapy that offered immediate and lasting relief. The episode delves into their first session, where they felt an unparalleled sense of joy and mental clarity. As we move to Bryn's professional life, we learn about her passion for interior design and how she documents her healing journey on social media. Follow Bryn on Instagram and Facebook through Farmstead Design Studio for continual inspiration. This episode is a beacon of hope for anyone seeking new solutions for managing mental health issues.

Website: https://homeonthefarmstead.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/homeonthefarmstead/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/farmsteaddesignstudio/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryn-ghio

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Speaker 1:

Welcome friends, back to the tele wellness hub podcast. I'm Marta Hamilton, your host, and I'm so excited to start part three of our series on ketamine assisted therapy. We've heard from Crystal, the owner of a group practice based out of Virginia LifeWorks Professional Counseling. In part one. If you haven't listened to part one or two, I do recommend you do, because she gives an amazing overview of what ketamine is, how it's used as ketamine-assisted therapy. In part two of our series, we talked to other clinicians who have sat in sessions and just have seen the transformation and the amazing power in ketamine-assisted therapy for their clients, and so today we get to speak with Bryn Geo. She has herself gone through a ketamine-assisted therapy session with Crystal, so we're going to get to get an insight on all levels we started with from Crystal, the clinicians and also someone who's experienced ketamine-assisted therapy herself. So welcome, brynn. Thank you so much for joining today. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1:

I was really inspired by this series as a clinician series. As a clinician, just hearing all the research and the amazing opportunities for healing for people, and also personally having undergone therapy myself and just hearing what I've been hearing about just the ability to have amazing transformation or insight, to have such a supportive environment and just the hope that can come as part of someone's healing journey. I'm just so grateful that you're willing to come on here and share your perspective, because I had so many questions and I think a lot of listeners also have questions. It's relatively new. There may not be a lot shared because this happens behind private doors and it can be so individual and personal. So I'm very grateful you're here today and I can't wait to dive into your experience. But before we do that, could you share a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Uh. So I um, like I shared before, um, I am a mom, um of two, and currently live in uh, virginia, but I have lived um, in North Carolina, tennessee. It's my second time in Virginia and, originally from California, we've moved around a lot for my husband's job, but I have been in the wedding industry since 2009. And I currently just graduated, a couple of weeks ago, with my master's degree in science and interior design, you know, and just sort of trying to figure out what this next season of life is going to look like. And I mean, actually it's kind of been a big part of that.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, okay, Well, awesome, yeah, I. That's why I loved before we hit record. You know we're talking about kids and kids ages and what's next, and and just your congratulations, I should say, to your master's. I think sometimes people may not know well who would use ketamine and often we hear as it being an option, especially with trauma, and this is a tool, a modality that's available for a lot of people and I love that you're coming on here and you're in school, you're a mom like you're sharing, like you've. This is available to people and I think sometimes we don't know like well, do I fit the the like? Could I benefit from it? Do I, you know, do other moms do this too? And I, I love that you're sharing this. And I, you know, do other moms do this too? And I love that you're sharing this. And I'm curious you said that it's been a big part of your journey If you could share a little bit about how that came about.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. Graduate school, you know, it opens up so many different levels yourself that you did not know you thought you had healed. There's new layers, new triggers, new wounds, and grad school, you know, is tough academically, but then emotionally. Having a family I was an out-of-state online student. You know, all of these things combined, I couldn't have done grad school without my therapist student. You know, all of these things combined, I couldn't have done grad school without my therapist, crystal, who I actually started seeing her in 2017, 2016. So it's been quite a while and part of your life.

Speaker 1:

she knows, she knows oh yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And she just happened to be when I lived closer to where she is. She just happened to be the closest therapist and she just happened to be when I lived closer to where she is. She just happened to be the closest therapist and we clicked really well and she's the only therapist I've ever made progress with, and I have seen 11 or 12 in my life and I have some furious therapist trauma from from some of them, furious therapist trauma from from some of them. So, you know, for it was really important for me to once I found her, to continue with her, and so, you know, there's been different journeys and ebbs and flows and everything. And since I moved back to Virginia and started seeing her via telehealth which, my gosh, telehealth is amazing yeah, you know, I started I was having postpartum depression after my second and it I went back onto an SSRI and I kind of I also had trauma surrounding SSRIs as a child and so I've always been very apprehensive when I have had to go back on it. And this time I was like you know what, if I have to be on this for life, then I have to be on this for life, if this is what is going to help, you know, set my baseline then. That's just where I need to be, need to be.

Speaker 2:

And in grad school I was having a really hard time getting my thesis to like, actually finishing it.

Speaker 2:

I was having a lot of a hard time with a lot of my papers and my research papers and I would just get in this overwhelmed state of like I had too many ideas, I didn't know where to go, I couldn't focus and it was a problem in, you know, in actually finishing what I needed to finish. And Crystal had brought up hey, I've been looking into ketamine, you know, I think that you'd be a really great fit for this, and so I started exploring it and, luckily, luckily, when I started ketamine, it was right, as I was in like the crunch time of my thesis. Um, I do not think that I would have finished my thesis without ketamine. Um, I do not know that I could have done the amount of work that I did in my thesis without ketamine Um, so it was a really big change for me. You know, personally, my family sees it, friends see it, and it's just a completely different outlook. That changed even how I was approaching, you know, my thesis in graduate school.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, Well, yeah, that sounds major because that's such a big yes part of it sounds like there was like a block and so so much, so often, especially, you know, after you have a child we're both moms. I know that specifically with postpartum it's so there can be so many things. It could be overwhelming with it in general, navigating that, plus you were in graduate school, plus difficulty kind of with that, the tasks. I don't know if there were other things that were. Maybe you mentioned earlier that grad school can bring up some wounds or things that you thought you had healed. Was that part of what was difficult? When it came with the thesis that ketamine helped, I'm I'm curious, yeah, what shifts you experienced?

Speaker 2:

So I'm definitely a perfectionist and a detail oriented, like minute details, like down to the minutia, and so sometimes I get stuck in those and it's because there's so many of those details I can get overwhelmed because I have all the data and all the things, I just don't necessarily, um, can't make that next step because I might forget something or I might do it wrong, um, and so it was really hard in, you know, some of the in, like my thesis of like, okay, I just need to put something out. Like you know, you get to a point where you're like I just need some data and I just need, I just need a paper to put it together, and I was having a hard time with that. And I also, like you know, with depression and anxiety. You know, oftentimes I describe it like I have typically about, you know, multiple browsers open in my brain and each browser, like there's a past browser, a present browser and a future browser, and then each browser has probably like a hundred tabs open and so I'm trying to keep track of all those things all at the same time.

Speaker 2:

It's overwhelming, like you can't function at your best, I get, you know, fatigued really easily and so just because, like my brain is running in so many different circles and so with ketamine it helps me to feel more mindful and present, and so I feel like I have been able to close the past browser, close the present browser or the future present browser or the future browser, and just keep the present browser open, close all the tabs and then just bring up a tab in the present that's for the past or for the future. So I'm not stuck in as much in the fight or flight of you know, the trauma and triggers and things like that. You know, which helps in being able to fully process and be more present and like opening yourself up for that, that stillness and space and more of.

Speaker 2:

Instead of worrying about what am I going to do after my master's degree, what am I going to do after I finish this thesis? What am I going to do after my master's degree? What?

Speaker 1:

am I going to do after I finish this thesis? And just, yeah, yeah, that's an incredible metaphor. I could definitely yeah, I painted a picture, I'm a visual person and maybe that's also for me, but I could imagine that. How overwhelming that would be and how wonderful to to close the tabs, to focus on the present. I mean that would be, yeah, incredible.

Speaker 1:

When it came to deciding to go ahead and schedule this session. I mean, how did it go about? It sounds like she mentioned that you might be a good candidate for this. Were there any concerns? Were there any uncertainties? Were you Googling things? Can you talk us through just kind of your experience from like initial thought, because some people might be listening and say, maybe this is something that I could be a candidate for and there may be some stuff in between and just to kind of normalize it but also share that you know you're not alone in this kind of from thought process and maybe therapy trauma from other therapists too, I think unfortunately, as a therapist myself, I know how difficult that is that that exists, but the fact that you found someone you clicked with, you're making progress. They mentioned this. Maybe you're a candidate from there to actually doing it. Can you share a little bit about that kind of journey?

Speaker 2:

Definitely so. Um Crystal mentioned it and she, you know, was able to send me over a bunch of um you know research that she has she's incredible she really is.

Speaker 2:

I love her so much, um, you know, so like she had there were links, there were videos, you know, and so, yeah, so like it was, like you know, academic research. It was, you know, therapists talking about it, clients talking about their experiences and stuff. I did a lot of you know just research on Google and like I found some like Reddit threads of like people going through their own journeys and sort of talking about like their experiences and stuff. It definitely was scary and like nerve, nerve wracking to be like I don't know, just like these you know air quotes, drugs that you know, you know air quotes, drugs that you know often get, you know, growing up in the 90s it was drugs are bad. You do drugs, you will die, you know, and so like there's this whole connotation that like, as I've grown up, I have had to shed and I've become much more natural-minded and crunchy and you know more into the. You know just the natural herbs and like healing and things like that.

Speaker 2:

And so, thinking about you know what, what I was initially told about all these things and now that the research is coming out about all these different things and, like you know, marijuana used to be the gateway drug and now marijuana is. You know it can be used for so many different treatments and health and so many different things and it's being, you know, legalized, and so now it's. But it's hard to wrap your brain around that when you know some of those things have been ingrained over and over and over. So, and I have, I'm like a goody goody, I've never done like recreational drugs, like never smoked marijuana, you know. So like for me to go like it was kind of, um, you know very much a a trust process in terms it was, you know, trusting Crystal, trusting myself, um, which is something I'm still working on. That's one really big thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, trusting yourself. I could see that yeah.

Speaker 2:

That, like you know, this experience could be and there's always that hope of this could be the one. This could be the experience that changes everything for me.

Speaker 1:

Have you tried other things? Oh sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I was actually just going to say yes. So, I mean, I've been in and out of therapy since a child, I don't know, like nine years old, so I have depression, anxiety and trichotillomania, and I started pulling when I was five. So I have tried anything and everything in terms of, like you know, for pulling, trying not to pull, you know, fake nails, nail polish, short nails, long nails, you know, snapping rubber bands, all of those type of things. You know I've been on SSRIs, lots of different therapeutics, therapists doing different methods and things like that, and with Crystal, I did do EMDR, and I did see quite a bit of success with EMDR quite a bit of success with EMDR.

Speaker 2:

The interesting thing, though, is that I feel like ketamine is like EMDR on steroids, like the things that I had, like discoveries I made. Doing EMDR have it was like okay, I see this, now how do I change it? Because those pathways are so rutted into your brain, and so the changing part was difficult, whereas with ketamine, because it's making those new connections, it, you know, um, after my ketamine sessions, I made the connections in my brain and they have been rewired in my brain, and so now I'm able to carry them into everyday life. So it was a really, you know, dramatic change, um, you know know, for especially the very first two sessions oh, wow From the first session, oh yeah, wow From the very first session.

Speaker 2:

I started my first session. It was like end of January, beginning of February, and I've done I think it's five so far. February and I've done. I think it's five so far. And so there's it's. It's just like a completely new outlook in some ways, and like one of the ways that I have been trying to describe it to people is that I can tell you, you know what the absence of depression and anxiety should look like and should feel like, but because even my highest highs are have always been tinged with depression and anxiety, I could never actually know what it was like. You know, I've never broken my arm. I can tell you what I think it feels like, but until I break my arm I don't actually know. And so it's. It's a very different, you know, that visceral feeling of actually feeling it versus just talking about. You know what you think it would feel like. So it's been very I'm like oh, this is how people feel without depression, anxiety. I had no idea.

Speaker 1:

Wow, yeah, and how amazing. I mean since nine years old, I'm hearing, or five years old with the trickle down. What a relief, I mean how, what a gift to have that.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yeah, like it's definitely given much more, you know, hope and just peace in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1:

Um, just peace in a lot of ways. Yeah, and you mentioned from that first session. If you don't mind sharing a little bit about what your first session experience was like, cause I've heard that everyone is different. Some people might want to use eye masks, some people get excited people talk. Some people wait till later. I understand there's an integration session.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, so I can be very verbose and so I stayed true for most of my session and it crystal even said she was like your session did not go how I expected it to go, was like your session did not go how I expected it to go. Um, and it was really interesting because the first time on ketamine and the first couple of sessions I was like a little kid. I was just like she. Crystal was like I've never seen this side of you. I've never seen this like silliness and joy and like I was just like playful and you. So it really felt like it was able to unlock and like showcase, like my inner child.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I imagine it being free, like freeing for your inner child, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, especially since you know like she has had to do so much to protect me, you know, throughout my life, with all the trauma and everything, and so you know like she has had to do so much to protect me, you know, throughout my life, with all the trauma and everything, and so you know, it kind of felt like this was one of the first times that she was able to just be a kid and just be so. I was, you know, talkative and silly and you know, just spirited, and towards the end of the session I mean it was a good, I think it was like 30 or 45 minutes um, crystal said I just stopped talking and I just sat and I was just quiet and like I didn't say anything and I was just like you know, crystal's, like what's going on, are you okay?

Speaker 2:

like, and I was just like I just am, I'm just'm just being, and so it was just yeah, which is not something, especially, you know, when your mind is going a thousand miles a minute, like that's not something I normally do. So it was. It was sort of like get all the things out, like do all this processing and then I was like letting it percolate.

Speaker 1:

Wow yeah. How incredibly restorative for your brain, your mind, your spirit, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Definitely.

Speaker 1:

The whole thing was about three hours, maybe, right, yeah, three hours.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's about three hours. You know from the start all the setup and everything doing the session and then the end of session checklist and then I think it's within 24 or 48 hours. We've always done 24 hours. We do like a one hour integration session and so we just sort of go back and talk about the insights, the connections, what she saw, what she experienced, what I saw and experienced. And then actually after this last session, I just started doing this, so I've been voice recording all of my sessions and integration sessions.

Speaker 1:

I was going to ask do you?

Speaker 2:

remember what you experienced. You remember everything. You remember everything. It's not like you know, you like you're blacked out or something. No, no, like you're, um, you're fully aware it's just, sensations are like magnified, like wow, I, I'm already a very visual person and like the things that I like see and like I'm like you know, feeling colors. Yeah it's, it's wild, um, so, um, but not scary. No, mine has not been scary at all, like my, um, none of my sessions have been bad or scary or overwhelming in any negative way.

Speaker 2:

They have all been. It's sort of been where I need to go, when I need to go there, you know, and again trusting in the universe, trusting in myself that I'm going to get what I need out of the session. And then, you know, one of the things that the because I was really nervous about some of the like dosing and things like that. And in talking with the prescribing doctor, she was like you need to figure out what you can do to take this where you're safe and brave. And that has been sort of my motto is like okay, how can I be safe and brave, you know? So, like when I took like cause they have like different like dosing and like schedules, and like you can take some of it like one part and then wait 20 minutes and like this it's you know this whole thing.

Speaker 2:

And we were going to try doing it the entire dose all at one time and it really scared me. Like I was like I don't feel, like I have control. And she was like well, do what makes you feel safe and brave. And so I was like I need to do this in person with Crystal, yeah. And so, like I was like let's you know figure out how we can make this happen. And since, like once, I did that, I was like, okay, I'm good, like you know I can do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, that's incredible. Then it just sounds really empowering, still Cause I was curious, do you remember what is it like? And even with the dosage, it sounds like you know there's a lot of empowerment, it sounds like and freedom, and I love that you're able to record the sessions. I think that's probably really cool and to kind of to integrate, I guess. Do your integrate session but also link back and remember yeah again.

Speaker 2:

So what I started doing during this last session because this last session was a little bit different than some of my other ones and I actually did feel like I had maybe, um, like some places where I was like, whoa, I'm not ready to go there. I don't know what this walk is, but I'm not ready to go there and so I decided, um over the last week that I was going to, um, listen to them instead of a, like I usually do, like a sleep hypnotherapy. So I put them on for when I go to bed, cause I also have really vivid dreams and do a lot of processing in my dreams.

Speaker 1:

And so.

Speaker 2:

I've been, you know, monday or like I did it over the weekend, and so like the weekend and Monday and Tuesday I was kind of like, eh, not really good with this. And by Wednesday I was like I'm good, like I found peace, and Crystal was like what shifted? What did you do different?

Speaker 1:

You're like, I listened to my thing. What a great idea to just be.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of self, it's self-empowerment in so many ways, through so many modalities, through this, from the first session even. It sounds like that's incredible if you were to share something in terms of maybe someone's listening and they're not sure about ketamine assisted therapy, but they really feel like wow, like maybe this is for me. I've been in therapy before. I I still, like you said, you know, I still feel this like lingering depression, anxiety, or I have blocks from my trauma. I think maybe this is for me. What would you say to them?

Speaker 2:

I think that being open is, you know, and that growth mindset is one of the best things you can do for yourself. And you know, if you automatically say no, you're never going to know. Yeah, you know, whereas if you're open to exploring and the opportunities and perhaps with you know what comes in at the right time, you never know what might come up. I know that it can be very scary and has a you know, really kind of bad connotation with it, which I think sometimes, like that can be. The hardest part is getting over your preconceived notions about something you know and so going into it with that open mindset and that open openness to see maybe from a different perspective. You know there's there's so many things that you miss because you're too closed off.

Speaker 2:

Whereas you know, being open, it might just be the right time, the right person, the right therapist and you know, you never know yeah, it might just change your life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, truly. I mean, that's amazing. I'm so grateful that you shared, because you were living a full life and it sounds like you were able to.

Speaker 1:

like you said, you were open and it was the right therapist the right time and it has changed your life, and in an amazing way. So I'm so grateful that you're you've been willing to share and the details of it you know of, of what you experienced and what you thought before going into it, and and just kind of an insight for those who are considering it, because your conversation might just change someone's life or be the first kind of butterfly for them to start on their own journey to to change their life. So I'm so grateful for you being a part of other people's journey in that way. If, um, I know that you you have, uh your your interior design work that you're doing, um I I would encourage maybe listeners if they want to follow you, if that's okay. We talked about that. You know how can people um see what you share, cause you shared before. We recorded that. You know you do share about this journey on social media, um, if people want to connect or follow you there, what's the best way?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely so. My business is farmstead design studio. Um, you can find me on um Instagram or Facebook. Um, and, yeah, I have shared quite a bit of my uh healing journey and excited to share, you know, um this podcast, when, when it comes out, and everything as well.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I'll, I'll include it in the show notes and we'll, we'll, we'll tag Bryn in everything so you know, um, just to kind of where to follow her and that she continues to share with with, with everything. So, Bryn, thank you so much, truly again, for for sharing and for being a part of our wellness journey. Thank you so much.